Author Topic: Hall to sell shares?  (Read 64701 times)

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indi

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Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #475 on: Tuesday 20 June 2006, 06:58:50 PM »
The motives behind the takeover are the easy bit: Profit.

Simple as that. They obviously believe they can make a profit out of owning NUFC, the real question is: how?

There are a number of ways they could attempt to do it, some reasonable, some not.

Basically I think their approach will depend largely upon how quickly they want to realise the profit.

If they're looking for a quick buck then I think they'll try to get the club moving in the right direction and take the profit from the resulting share price increase. This could mean the club changes hands again very quickly, after as little as a couple of years maybe.

If however they're in it for the long haul, then, as Parky says, the money is generated through using the club as a marketing tool. Basically you stick the club logo, etc, on any prduct you can think of, add a premium to the price and take your 10%. Man Utd are the only club to do this even remotely successfully at the moment, there's potential for other clubs to do the same or more even. They have their name on loads of stuff, from toothpicks to financial products, there's even a "Red" cinema, which brings me nicely on to the best example of how much money can be made through effective marketing, films.

Hollywood is the prime example of the kind of money football could be bringing in and it's the reason why people are still prepared to invest significant amounts of money in what appear to be loss making businesses (Football clubs). Hollywood films make most of their money through marketing/merchandising, I don't have the figures, but I'd be willing to bet that the cash brought in by marketing dwarfs ticket sales for almost all modern hollywood films. Often the film itself is almost an afterthought to the merchandise nowadays, the studios know that they don't even have to make a very good film to make a profit. If they do manage to end up with a commercially successful film, then it's megabucks time!! This is why we have to put up with things like: Dude Where's My Moped 89 and  Gone in 60 Seconds 33 - Wolverhampton Wheelie, because once one of these franchises has made it big they can produce endless sequels and spinoffs, and it doesn't even matter if no-one goes to see it, because the marketing brings the money in anyway. Did you know that Waterworld, widely considered the biggest box-office flop of all time, actually made a healthy profit when the marketing income is taken into consideration?

Investors continue to believe that similar things are possible using football, no-one's really done it yet, but they still think they will, who knows they might be right, lets hope it's us who makes the breakthrough.

Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #476 on: Tuesday 20 June 2006, 07:43:18 PM »
See the bit in bold.

Do you not realise that without the signing of Owen the club was facing a certain battle against relegation?

Absolutely, I had a big bet on us going down  :confused:

It all comes back to the appointment of Souness and it is becoming increasingly strange that you won't allow yourself to see this. They backed him in getting rid of the cancers when really the problem was that shithead can't manage anybody with a strong personality. That lack of ability by shithead caused the spending on other players such as Luque.

It is and was not the £17m on Owen that is the problem, I really think you show a lack of understanding of the big picture that you believe it is. Owen is the replacement for Shearer, who needed replacing as he was well past it, but unfortunately he was required to stay on because of the departure of other players forced out due to Souness. It was always going to cost a lot of money to replace a top striker such as Shearer and signing Owen was a great move by the club in brinigng in that replacement. The problem was elsewhere.

I am totally comfortably with the idea that Owen is Shearer's replacement. But if that was the case then they shouldn't have spent the money on Emre/Parker/Luque. They just don't have the money to do eerythign they did. (I understand there was a complication witht he timings, and it may have been different if Owen had been signed in June)
BUT absolutely the finances of the club are the prime responsibility of the people in the board room. They alone are responsible for signing the cheques, all spend is up to them. They didn't have to back their manager with the amount of money they did. To take on debts of £17m, have no cash in the bank, to set the club to lose £1m per month is just madness that cannot be justified by saying "oh but we were backing the manager".
Going back the the (thankfully forgotten) recession discussion, Shepherd looekd at his finances, saw they were desperately tight, and decided to buy a ferrari, and double-glazing and a conservatory and stuck them all on his mortgage. And said " I was only doing what the wife wanted".


Do you really not believe relegation was a possibility without that signing of Owen? What do you think would be the consequences of relegation?

I've said I was pretty sure we'd go down without him. But we are frighteningly close to going bust with the finaces we have at the moment. The consequences may not be as quick to surface, but the threat is still there.

The other way of looking at it is that Bellamy and Robert actually were destroying the club from the inside. In which case the Board took the correct decision in backing Souness even though they would have known that to sustain our PL status they would need to gamble in the transfer market to do so. You can't just replace a top striker like Shearer, a top defender like Woodgate and then 2 'cancers' who are your most creative players without having to bear some pain in the process. Why don't you understand that? The alternative is that the club goes to the wall through being relegated. Is that what you would prefer?


No, but we're far closer to it now than we were a year ago. Financially we need something very drastic to happen,  maybe the new investors, but as I've said elsewhere and most seem to have similar opinions, we just don't know about them. The spending antics of last summer were like Murray's desperate spend to keep sunlun up, or Ridsdale's to buy success at Leeds. We have to hope that the season ticket sales stand up otherwise there may well not be enough cash to get us through next season.

I am not trying to be a scaremonger. But we have no cash, not a penny. How are we supposed to pay the players next season ?


Football Finances in plain English - http://www.football-finances.org.uk/

madras

  • Philosoraptor
Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #477 on: Tuesday 20 June 2006, 09:50:00 PM »
Quote
TV money seems to be the golden carrot for most but I can see the explosion in TV money decreasing in years to come. Again there isn't much more they can squeeze out of TV companies which in turn have to recoup their money back from subscription and advertising. If the country came into a recession or interest rates went up, people would cancel Broadband and Sky TV and revert to Free View (many already are) or something and that will impact the game hugely in a negative way.
 

the pressure on the premiership to let go of it's collective bargaining is increasing(some even think the last round would be the last of its kind)it seems like this could .rightly or wrongly, happen.where would you place us in a league table of this ilk,i'd reckon manu,arsenal,chelsea,liverpool would net bigger deals,tottenham would be similar to ourselves.the tv revenue will increase,sky etc without football is dead,as the premiership without the tv money is dead,mutually supporting.the problem could be if a challenger comes in and like the nationwide cant pay its agreements.

some thought the glazers wouldnt make man u pay,for all their profits the debt created was massive,however with individual media rights they will clean up,perhaps polygon think the same.
Bullshitters misrepresent themselves to their audience not as liars do, that is, by deliberately making false claims about what is true. In fact, bullshit need not be untrue at all.

Rather, bullshitters seek to convey a certain impression of themselves without being concerned about whether anything at all is true. They quietly change the rules governing their end of the conversation so that claims about truth and falsity are irrelevant.

Adamski

Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #478 on: Wednesday 21 June 2006, 12:52:41 AM »
I found this while doing some research on UBS. Its a few years old now but still very interesting.

"Alan Shearer signs with the Sports and Entertainment Group of UBS
UBS announces today that it has the support of former England football captain and Newcastle United star, Alan Shearer, strengthening its commitment to building a globally strong Sports and Entertainment Group. UBS aims to utilise Alan Shearer's experience to help the Sports and Entertainment Group raise UBS' profile amongst other professional sportsmen.

These clients' strongest earning power often falls over a limited period of time. With a detailed understanding of their requirements both in the short-term and the long-term, UBS can build a package of financial solutions that best suit its clients' needs. "We want our clients to make the most of their talent while we work carefully and quietly in the wings to ensure that the income generated by their success is converted into lasting wealth," states Neil Grainger, head of the Sports and Entertainment Group (SEG) in London.
London/Zurich, August 24, 2001
UBS AG"

It doesnt really say much but I was surprised to find that Al had any kind of connection with the company involved in the takeover. Let the conspiracy theories begin.



Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #479 on: Wednesday 21 June 2006, 12:55:38 AM »
Shearer our next Chairman

BlufPurdi

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Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #480 on: Wednesday 21 June 2006, 12:56:42 AM »
Shearer our next Chairman

I like that thought a hell of a lot more than him being our next manager. 
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Alan Shearer 9

Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #481 on: Wednesday 21 June 2006, 01:04:07 AM »
Would he be loaded enough?

GeordieMessiah

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Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #482 on: Wednesday 21 June 2006, 01:04:58 AM »
Would he be loaded enough?
How loaded would he need to be anyway?
"Football violence will continue as long as they're shitting in our shoes and we're pissing in their Bovril" - Billy Connolly

Alan Shearer 9

Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #483 on: Wednesday 21 June 2006, 01:05:33 AM »
Shepherd's asking for £3 billion

GeordieMessiah

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Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #484 on: Wednesday 21 June 2006, 01:07:54 AM »
"Football violence will continue as long as they're shitting in our shoes and we're pissing in their Bovril" - Billy Connolly

Adamski

Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #485 on: Wednesday 21 June 2006, 01:09:14 AM »
Hitzfeld for chairman!

Raconteur

  • I don't see any method at all, sir
Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #486 on: Wednesday 21 June 2006, 01:15:06 AM »
Could someone please expand on the "casino" theory?

I remember some talk perhaps a year or more ago that permission was being sought to build a casino in Newcastle, and that the club had some involvement. As I didn't hear much after that I assumed it had failed the approval process.

But is that really the case? Casino's are absolute cash cows - if that's on the agenda then we really don't need to speculate, do we? Man U and Chelski have shown that spin-off investments are the way of the future, and 'Goal!' proved we are not averse to getting on board...?
Looking after Charles Freck's artifacts

Adamski

Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #487 on: Wednesday 21 June 2006, 01:15:47 AM »
"Alan Shearer signs with the Sports and Entertainment Group of UBS
UBS announces today that it has the support of former England football captain and Newcastle United star, Alan Shearer, strengthening its commitment to building a globally strong Sports and Entertainment Group. UBS aims to utilise Alan Shearer's experience to help the Sports and Entertainment Group raise UBS' profile amongst other professional sportsmen.

These clients' strongest earning power often falls over a limited period of time. With a detailed understanding of their requirements both in the short-term and the long-term, UBS can build a package of financial solutions that best suit its clients' needs. "We want our clients to make the most of their talent while we work carefully and quietly in the wings  to ensure that the income generated by their success is converted into lasting wealth," states Neil Grainger, head of the Sports and Entertainment Group (SEG) in London.
London/Zurich, August 24, 2001
UBS AG"

It sounds like shearer is more of a representative than a client but I still think its very interesting that he would be involved with the company heading the takeover. Probably just a coincidence, but maybe not.

Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #488 on: Wednesday 21 June 2006, 03:46:10 AM »

Well i think the idea is that as China and the 'emerging markets' to give them their financial term continue to grow, so does their GDP and hence their spending power. I think the idea is to establish the football brands now so that they take advantage of the new welath that will inevitably trickle down from the current holders (ie the super rich). No one has cracked making enormous profits yet as that is to come in the future i guess.

Otherwise, why the hell is all this foreign money (generally, not football) pouring in now?


Why would China for example spend their extra disposable income on a football club they have no real affinity for from a far flung land? And if they did would they do this year after year, generation after generation like a born and bread Geordie would with Newcastle for example? At top whack prices too?

How much would it cost a football club to trade with China for example? Would the profits be enough to make it worth while? Bearing in mind they are starting out from scratch, a market doesn't exist, they have to create one or carve one out?

Why would China's football associations allow a foreign club to claim the disposable income of their football fans? They won't, they'll use the economic growth to seed their own game.

I can see China paying mega bucks to big name clubs from Europe to play a Chinese side in the hope that their own fans start to get an interest in their own game or the paying club for example, but where do NUFC fit into that? We made nothing from our Far East tour a few years back. Man Utd haven't made much either from their various tours, well they have but it's all went back into player wages.

Football has a ceiling, unlike normal businesses. They grow from within. There is no profit in football, the more you earn, the more you spend. It's a vicious circle. If club's want to become part of the business food chain and become viable business models they need to cut operating costs.

But they can't because fans won't turn up to watch donkeys playing and players won't join a club for peanuts.

Quote

To the bit in bold Grass i say open your eyes, this is what is happening all around us this week. The smell of money all over football, expensive coca cola ads, ridiculous sponsorship restrictions and milllions of pounds knocking about everywhere.

Everyone in business is looking at where the next spurt of growth is coming from and what are the vehicles to make money out of it. Emerging markets in asia and football are areas of key economic growth. Believe me they are, i dont even need to make a case for it now, its a reality. There are areas closer to home that mean increased money flowing into football. Its why the world cup is so important to FIFA.

Try not to mix up analysis with aspirations, we all have an idea of how things should be but people who are succesful and win tend to know how things are going to be.

Your questions at the top of the post suggest you dont think the future value of the game will grow, i say that all consumer spending is predicted to rise in these markets and football is expected to take a share. At a certain level, that means hedge funds could be interested.

smoggeordie

Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #489 on: Wednesday 21 June 2006, 02:46:49 PM »
Wonder if Owen's injury will affect this...

Re: Hall to sell shares?
« Reply #490 on: Wednesday 21 June 2006, 07:04:06 PM »
Could someone please expand on the "casino" theory?

I remember some talk perhaps a year or more ago that permission was being sought to build a casino in Newcastle, and that the club had some involvement. As I didn't hear much after that I assumed it had failed the approval process.

But is that really the case? Casino's are absolute cash cows - if that's on the agenda then we really don't need to speculate, do we? Man U and Chelski have shown that spin-off investments are the way of the future, and 'Goal!' proved we are not averse to getting on board...?


we're on a national shortlist of 8 for the casino. the govt will decide who gets it and they'll probably choose blackpool.